Author Topic: HIM's direction  (Read 3496 times)

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Offline Goetia

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HIM's direction
« on: February 07, 2010, 08:25:41 AM »
OK so it just popped in my head at about 1 a.m. while talking to my boyfriend
on the phone...I actually managed to give a pertinent and well argumented claim about our beloved band HIM.
So i was very... very ..extremely excited about this upcoming album as all of the fans i guess ,I ruined a lot of my nights trying to get a leak or anything on it... etc etc.
  The main reason was because i was waiting for something else , something not VD and something 100% different than DL.
Anyway the day arrived i listened to it and must say loved it ( it's Fking him so what's not to love and i certainly do not want to be a hypocrite) but i could not help feeling somewhat regret...I just wanted to know why in hell's name would a band over 10 years old  and with a singer that's in his 30's still keeps writing this kind of music.(By this kind of music i mean lyrics designed for 16 year old's  and music just for a certain crowed of people)
In my opinion HIM is the greatest band... i grew up listening to the band and with a huge huge crush on Ville...but i matured and just started focusing  on the lyrical and musical side of the band and stopped staring at ville's ass.
Think about it...listen to any of the songs that HIM made before the year of grace 2005...what can you hear? well i will tell you simple yet so meaningful lyrics and the music just plain simple yet so romantic and so out there.
Let give you an  example of what i am trying to say.For instance let's take "No one will love you" "Beautiful" ,"Gone with the sin" ,"Heaven tonight" you name it.The titles the chorus is something that even the dumbest  person on earth could understand...even my mom was somewhat attracted to the songs and she is 50.
Now try and put them aside with all the songs on SW album. .Don't take it in a bad way, the lyrics are great but just for an 18 year old audience not older. This is the main problem and why the band lost a lot of their fans(and a lot of them from Europe mainly)and i mean it.
Try and refresh your minds think of all the 90's band and how they reinvented themselves changed something don't know...it's just that Ville seems to continue
staying in that detriment of LOVE/HATE/DEATH (this is what made them unique) for to many years now and i speak in my behalf because i have been listening for a long long time.
DO YOU STILL SEE THEM SINGING IN THIS STYLE IN THIS MANNER??? DON"T YOU THINK WE WILL GET BORED OF "dancing with tags on our toes"??? How much time do you give the band?I think it will be so lame to see ville singing about this in his 40's honestly and it makes me sad...very sad.

I hope i did not offend anyone....SO WHAT DO YOU THINK? Am i to harsh...or do some of you share my somewhat drastic judgment on the band ...that i still love ... ??? ???

EDIT: imagine a 35 year old ville singing "Baby let me be your valentine".....
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 10:47:06 AM by Goetia »

Offline Weemo

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Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2010, 10:27:38 AM »
I kind of agree here. I do feel that the nature and content of Ville's writing, in general, has always been a bit on the immature side. As most people grow up, they become more level-headed about relationships and understand the complexities, and that they won't be singing a "dying song" if their significant other breaks up with them. Yet at the same time, this perhaps overly romanticized rendition of relationships and heartache are also very attractive to even older listeners because it pulls them out of reality back into a more childish (and thus, simpler) time.

But I disagree that his writing has been slowly dissolving. I dislike some of the early HIM songs because of their simplicity. It works sometimes, but a lot of times it does not. Even the music was less complex (though I'm not arguing that complex=good, but it does show more mastering of technique). I think it's clear that HIM have evolved and that the music has progressed in regards to song structure and lyrical content, but whether you believe that is a good or bad thing is going to rely solely on your opinion of the album(s).

Offline PhiLiz

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Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2010, 09:47:52 PM »
I just can't help laughing: there is a negative critic about the overall concept of HIM's music being too immature and the a dishing at 'Venus Doom'. Although the commentary wasn't lyric-related I would really like to know if that aspect is included in the critic too...

Offline Spiritual_takeover

Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2010, 01:45:06 AM »
When first listening to Heartkiller, I thought wtf where is the old Finnish band, what's this american crap... The fact is beginning with DL, they wanted to be more and more mainstream, to attract the US market and thus released only radio-friendly tracks as singles. The old HIM is I believe in the tracks they don't release as singles. I thought the complexity of Ville's lyrics would fade but I'm happy it didn't. It's smth I like about this band not being all in your face kinda crap but slightly dressing the words to sound original and still comprehensible. They would've been immature if they continued to be as simple as in RR or DSBH, but LM was a revolution in that matter. I'm curious about further experiments as I began to like TFSOIH...
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Offline Goetia

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Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2010, 04:44:36 AM »
I just can't help laughing: there is a negative critic about the overall concept of HIM's music being too immature and the a dishing at 'Venus Doom'. Although the commentary wasn't lyric-related I would really like to know if that aspect is included in the critic too...

Let me put this strait I don't want to be the felon here...I still think HIM is great...but if i think about it and just compare with a lot of bands that have started around the same time...the other bands GREW...HIM did not (again i speak for 2005and up)...not being 20 anymore probably not having that much fun on stage etc...the need of cash...pushed him in to writing "user friendly lyrics"...and yes I do criticize the lyrics 2...I hope nobody will try to kill me...AND AGAIN DO NOT GET IT WRONG....try and not be subjective about the subject and maybe some of you will see my point of view
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 04:47:02 AM by Goetia »

Offline Jay

Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2010, 12:06:30 PM »
I think Ville has excellent visions and descriptions, but I see what you're saying (about him staying on the same subject for years).  Though I don't think that HIM would "feel" right if the subject was something like, politics or current events.

The idea of HIM has always been hopelessly romantic.  (that's my opinion, of course)...

Offline Goetia

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Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2010, 12:11:39 PM »
I think Ville has excellent visions and descriptions, but I see what you're saying (about him staying on the same subject for years).  Though I don't think that HIM would "feel" right if the subject was something like, politics or current events.

The idea of HIM has always been hopelessly romantic.  (that's my opinion, of course)...

I don't see them singing about any other subject ...no way!!! It would feel weird you are right, but at least they could try come up with a different way of expressing all the romantic and loving stuff

Offline Rasta666

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Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2010, 12:18:43 PM »
I don't see them singing about any other subject ...no way!!! It would feel weird you are right, but at least they could try come up with a different way of expressing all the romantic and loving stuff

I feel like if they came up with a different way of expressing themselves lyrically, we would all hate it and complain about that instead.

Offline PhiLiz

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Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2010, 01:35:49 PM »
try and not be subjective about the subject and maybe some of you will see my point of view

The judgement of the lyrical aspect is purely subjective... That type of determinism doesn't exist and insinuating that you're the one being objective about it is just absurd.

And a much stronger objective argument could be made about HIM changing the lyrical direction after 'Love Metal' than the repetition view you're defending. And this is far more "objective".

The themes might be the same (and even that is arguable) but the approach is quite different since the much more direct early days. The exception might be some of the songs on this last album but even then it's different (not necessarily better, though).
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 01:37:30 PM by PhiLiz »

Offline Goetia

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Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2010, 02:04:37 PM »
by "try not to be subjective" does not subject to the lyrics but to the band ...pretend you are not a big HIM fan...maybe you will change your mind

Offline monkersville

Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 09:00:09 PM »
I can understand the point of them coming across as somewhat out-dated in how they write their lyrics.  At the same time, I feel that with this album, there might be a deeper meaning to the lyrics and remember this new album was an album based on past relationships and love.  That might be reflected in his writing style there, and I just thought Venus Doom was a flop altogether so yeah.  I think they are in the process of evolution and reinventing themselves so hopefully the future holds great things for them. 

Offline Jay

Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2010, 06:44:21 PM »
Better at what, exactly?

Offline Inferno

Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2011, 07:42:58 PM »
I don't see them singing about any other subject ...no way!!! It would feel weird you are right, but at least they could try come up with a different way of expressing all the romantic and loving stuff

Did you not just mention earlier that their lyrics have changed since they started? This seems a bit hypocritical. Their lyrics started out simple and have ended up more complex thus resulting in there being not just a single meaning to their songs. To elaborate, you could take some of their newer lyrics and interpret them in many different ways... the same can't be said about their much older material.

Their music's subject matter will never change. Changing it would make them something other than their band. If they all of a sudden changed their topics towards something that may be contained in Rap/Hip Hop, I highly doubt much of us would stick around to listen to it.

I don't think it's so much that you feel the band needs to change... it's you that have outgrown the band, because they have changed but not enough to change their identity.
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Offline shanemaloney

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Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2011, 10:40:37 PM »
hmm

Offline JoeDevine

Re: HIM's direction
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 04:03:17 PM »
Interesting post! I've had NO problem with the more 'mainstream' albums, but the point you raised about Ville still singing and writing those types of lyrics in his 40's/beyond is a very good point to make.